Borderless, Sustainable, and Free: Jeremy Tran on Building a Digital Nomad Life in Asia
There's a version of digital nomad life that looks like a laptop on a beach.
And then there's the version that actually works long-term.
Jeremy Tran has been living the second one. And in this episode, he gets into what sustainable nomadism in Asia really looks like — not the Instagram version, not the "quit your job and figure it out" version, but the one where you've actually built systems that let you live this way for years without burning out or going broke.
We talk about the cities that work for queer digital nomads — and the ones that look good on paper but fall apart in practice…
The visa situations that are more manageable than you think (and the ones that aren't)…
The community infrastructure that makes long-term nomadism actually livable versus just survivable…
And Southeast Asia's complicated relationship with queerness — more nuanced than the travel blogs suggest, in both directions.
Jeremy also gets into the moment this stopped being a phase and became a life.
That shift. When you realize you're not on an extended vacation. You're not running from something. You've just… built the thing. The location-independent, self-directed, genuinely free thing.
And it's not perfect. But it's yours.
If you've been researching Asia as a base… or just wondering whether this whole nomad thing is sustainable past your 30s… Jeremy's proof that it is. With receipts.
Watch the Episode here
Listen to the Podcast here
Borderless, Sustainable, and Free: Jeremy Tran on Building a Digital Nomad Life in Asia
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the World Playground Summit. I am beyond excited to bring this incredible man to you, because he's just super special and you'll get to see that in just a second. Look, I cannot introduce Jeremy Tran the way most conference MCs would, the drill. Please welcome our next speaker, a sustainability expert with experience in blah, blah, blah. That would be doing him a total disservice. Here's what you need to know. While most of us were doomscrolling through pandemic headlines, Jeremy was building Asia's first low-carbon media network.
This man speaks five languages, has lived in seven countries, and has advised over 50 global brands on entering Asian markets without looking like complete jackasses. His company, Asia Sustainable Travel, does not just talk about sustainability. They put five percent of all revenue into traceable environmental initiatives across Asia. They plan to treat every time someone subscribes to their newsletter. I love that idea. The signature company, Sainha, does marketing and branding for hotels and travel companies around the world. In an industry drowning in greenwashing, Jeremy provides actual actionable advice for LGBTQ plus digital nomads trying to navigate Asia with both purpose and profit. Ladies and gentlemen, everyone beyond in between, Mr. Jeremy Tran. There we go.
What an introduction. Thank you so much, Ken. I'm so happy to be with you.
I'm thrilled that I was to be with you, and you looked terrific.
Thank you. You too.
We're going to be having a mutual admiration society here. Everyone should know you truly are the quintessential digital nomad, which is really important. Where in the world are you right now?
I am in Hue, the imperial city. The former capital of Vietnam.
I know Hue is the capital of pancakes.
That's true.
I honestly got to have the best pancake lunch in Hue. It was quite a few years ago. That was after taking a night bus from Hanoi. I'm pretty sure that's how I did that.
That must have been a long ride for you coming from the North.
It was. That's why I took the night bus. It wasn't bad. It was two aisles. I'd never done that, and I always wanted to do an I-Bus. There was a single, and it pretty much looked like I-flat seats. You had one seat on the window side, one seat on the other window side, two aisles, and then there was one seat in the middle. It was almost like a wide-body airplane, except it was the bus with the two aisles. It was really fun.
I was just talking about one coming from another city in the North of Hue, which was four hours. I know exactly what you're talking about. It was a good experience.
It's something that everybody should do. Additionally, I think if you're on a budget, and I've had a lot of people writing in lately to my videos and just to the helpline, you're traveling around, and you're so rich, and I'm so poor, and what do I do? I'm like, “Wait, I'm out, cut the crap and stop being a victim.” Can we travel on a budget still? The answer is, of course, and you want to skip a night of lodging. Travel at night. Not just about saving money. It's about saving time.
If we're moving at night and sleeping on the train, bus, whatever plane, whatever, we do not lose a day. I hate traveling during the day. I could be at a museum, I could be at a beach, I could be doing something fun rather than sitting in an airplane or on a bus or a train or whatever. No. That said, being on a bus or whatever, the outside is amazing. I was on a fourteen-hour train ride in Australia last summer going to the Broken Hill Festival.
I saw these just fields of poppies, just gorgeous, yellow, golden, breathtaking. You would never see that when traveling at night. It's a fourteen-hour train ride on a train that did not have power, did not have Wi-Fi for most of it. It was pretty archaic in Australia, mind you. Anyway, let's jump in. We'll start at the very beginning, man. What first pulled you into the world of location independence?
Leaving the Corporate Grind for Location Freedom
Flexibility and freedom, I would say that was the main motivation that pushed me forward, this lifestyle. I've always been someone who values freedom and flexibility over corporate convention, if you know what I mean, and not that I did not work there in that world. I actually did well, excelled in the corporate 9:00 to 5:00 environment. I was not happy. I was not happy, to be honest with you. I was not happy in the sense that I had to follow some of my Nexus rules. If you know me well enough, I am quite a rebellious person.
I like to play by my own rules sometimes when I'm not breaking any laws. I thought about it for quite some time, to be honest with you, and I started with my previous employer, where my bosses were extremely kind and understanding in terms of what were you doing. I was actually working in China at that time for a marketing agency that helped international brands enter that gigantic market. Long story short, I saw an opportunity to be relocated elsewhere outside of China. I asked my bosses to consider relocating me to the Middle East, to Dubai, while I'm still working with them.
That was back in 2018, I believe. It took me a year to convince them that it was worth it. It also took me almost a year to be able to get the necessary visa to work and live there legally in Dubai. Between 2018 and 2020, right before the pandemic, I was working with my former employer as a digital nomad already. I reported back to them on a daily and weekly basis. I had a team back in China. I still managed them for two years. I was still delivering the work and the quality of work that they required, the clients required.
I realized that, “Why wouldn't I work for myself and do something that I'm really passionate about?” I jumped into the entrepreneurial world in 2022. Between 2020 and 2022, I was sorting out what I would do. Should I do this? I was thinking a lot about whether I should work for myself or work for someone else. Because I had the taste of working for someone else, yet independently, in terms of location and in terms of hours. When I wanted to get a job, just when the pandemic opened up again, I realized that I really could not fit back into the corporate world anymore.
I had to mold myself. When I actually worked with a career coach, he asked me to do XYZ, put together a resume, and then make sure that my LinkedIn and my resume looked a certain way. I said to myself, “I do not think I'm ready to go back to that world.” I just took a leap of faith and jumped into the digital nomad world, and I have been working for myself since then, and it's been a blast. I wouldn't change it for anything else.
Every time I see you, there's always a smile on your face, and I know it's drugs, so other than the drug of entrepreneurship, which is important, why did you just touch your nose like that? What was that about? I was interested.
I was itching.
There's nothing worse than having an itch, scratching your nose when you're on camera. It's the most horrible thing in the world. We have to edit that. I do not know. Let's get serious for a second. We will always be laughing, which is why I love you so much. Here's the thing. When I was putting your bio together and putting these questions together, I know you from a social way, semi-business, but more of a social way. Looking at what you do and what you've done, you're a force of nature. You are running serious multi-country businesses, which I love. I love that about having people in our community doing that, and you're doing it nomadically. How do you structure businesses so that you can run them while you're being totally mobile?
I have to have really good discipline and get into a routine immediately as soon as I land in any location. That's really routine and discipline. I learned that when I was working for my previous employer, depending on the location. I also had to have really good partners, to be honest with you, who hold me accountable for my work. I try to do it myself. Do not get me wrong, working for myself and running my own business.
It is really hard. On Sundays, I felt like, “Do I want to work today or do I just want to slack off?” No, we've been there. We've all been there, but you really have to start putting yourself out there and make promises to people. When your reputation is on the line, you just have to deliver, and you deliver for yourself, for your partners, for your clients, and for the end consumers that benefit from your client services. I say that is something that I always keep in mind.
Stop trading your freedom for corporate safety. You can build a location independent business on your own terms.
Now you're mentioning partners. Explain or define to me what a partner is to you because we all use the term partner in such different ways. Are you a sole owner of both companies, or are there other people that you report to or work with? Are you considering partners to be those that you serve?
Managing Time Zones and Team Accountability
For Asia's Sustainable Travel, my intelligence and media company, I co-founded it with my partner Raya, who is based in Manila. She has a family. She's based there permanently. I'm the one who travels. Having her as a fixed figure, I need to always look into her time zone to deliver. She would be either. I would use her as a benchmark. Am I three hours ahead of her or fifteen hours behind her? I need to deliver in her time zone. That really helps me to be accountable, essentially. We have a weekly meeting every week. It's on my calendar. I need to report and share with her what I've done the week before and what we are going to do the week ahead. That is very helpful.
That's for Asia's Sustainable Travel for Sainha. I work with clients, and clients are everywhere. They're in the US, they're in the UK, sometimes they're in the Middle East. Again, depending on the need to adapt my schedule and my routine according to the time zone. It's not really about me having fun all day, every day. I can have a little bit of fun for a couple of hours a day. At the end of the day, if you're a business owner, you are accountable for yourself, and if you do not deliver, you do not make money, and then you cannot continue this lifestyle. It's a practical matter. You cannot really avoid running away from your responsibility as a business owner.
First and foremost is our businesses, and that can be stressful when it's like, “Wait, there's a festival I can go to,” but no, wait, there's a deadline.” Where do you typically work?
I work at my home, my rental, a short-term rental, or the hotels. I do not usually work at cafes. Some people like to work in cafes to be with people. I cannot do that. I need to be in a quiet place where I can actually be by myself and get more done. There's nothing more moving than a cafe. If I want to be around people, I would just do it for a couple of hours. That's all it is. I cannot work there for eight hours because I also want to give my table to the next customer. A lot of times, you cannot hold a table for seven to eight hours in a day. That table could be used up for someone else.
I feel very selfish right now. I've done that, and you have to buy enough for me. It was chocolate frappés to rent the table. I consider that rent. Although usually the places I go to typically have, at least when I was in Bangkok, were not full, where there was not a table shortage. Just so I do not sound like a complete pig. It's important. People need to know where to live or where to work, rather. Although I think in our case, it's the same thing. It's really important. Let me jump back for a quick second. For many nomads, Asia can feel complex. You have got visas to consider, enormous business. Now you are originally from where?
I am from Vietnam. I was born and raised in Saigon, and I grew up in the US. I spent many years in the US. High school, university, and many years working as an adult.
You have a little bit of an Asian advantage. You had the whole world you could choose from. What made you choose Asia as your operational hub?
I feel connected to it. At the end of the day, I'm from Vietnam and from around here. It's a place that I feel like I can navigate easily. Not that I do not like a challenge. I lived in the Middle East. I lived in South America. Those places are very fun. They're interesting for me because they're very different from my own culture. I would strongly recommend that anyone who would like to explore the Middle East and Latin America go for it. Asia for me is home.
Choosing Asia as an Operational Nomad Base
I have friends, a lot of friends here, and family here. Also, because I spent, as I mentioned, I've spent many years working in China and in Asia, I want to continue my career here. At the end of the day, I want to play to my advantage as well. I speak the languages. I have professional and linguistic backgrounds here, so why not use them? At the end of the day, why do something that makes it harder than it should be? Life is already hard.
I could not agree more. I'm not sure our audience knows. I lived in Bangkok for nearly ten years. When I left the States, I don't know if you knew that, but when I left the States in 2009, I moved to Bangkok.
I did not know. I thought you lived a lot of time in Australia. I did not know that you lived in Bangkok.
Australia came after Bangkok. I moved to Bangkok in 2009. Travelling from there, Bangkok was like a base. I did Cambodia, Myanmar, and Vietnam, but not enough. I really wanted to live in Hoi An because, oh my God, it's gorgeous. The logistics just weren't there for me. In terms of traveling.
It's changed now. It's changed now. It's actually now a city. You can definitely get a lot of amenities and logistics. What are the logistics you require?
You still fly out of Da Nang though, right?
Yes, but then it's only an hour from Da Nang. The roads are in very good condition.
They were pretty good back then. My biggest concern for Hoi An was they did not want to destroy the beach because I saw the development starting and I was like, “The beach is so beautiful. Do not f*** it up.”
Sadly, in many places around the world, they are messing it up. Big time.
You're Mr. Sustainability, so we'll probably get to that later on in the discussion. What is now first and foremost is get the hell out there now, everybody, because the world is being destroyed more rapidly than probably ever before. The sooner we do get to explore, there are things I still haven't been to, like the Galapagos, yet. I haven't been to Antarctica yet. Before Antarctica all falls apart, I think we need to go. That's important. I did Bangkok as the hub until 2019, the end of the year. I went to Sydney because I was traveling there a lot because I was speaking there. I decided, and this is going to sound stereotypical, but it's 100 % true.
I did not really want 22-year-old Thai boys that were looking for daddy. I wanted somebody that was more significant because I was looking for a husband. Still, Aaron Bunner, Australia, fit all the bills. Plus, I wanted to be here again, and I wanted a little bit more of a Western thing. I still miss my street food. I still miss some of the things that are quintessentially Thailand. If you have not, as you watch those people, I've not been to Asia yet. If you think that it's something that is going to be uncomfortable, wrong. It's the most wonderful part of the world. Yes, it is just incredible. You've lived in seven different countries. You have got a lot to play with. What did you learn that helped you design a lifestyle like this, both stable and borderless?
Maintaining Relationship Grounding While Traveling
What keeps me stable is my life partner. He is extremely thoughtful and caring, and he is always there, and I can always go home to him. That helps me. It keeps me grounded in many ways. Borderless, let me answer this question in another way. I've always wanted to live in many countries in my life. Since I was very little, I dreamed of traveling, dreaming of speaking, being able to speak as many languages as I could.
Play to your strengths when choosing your base abroad. Leverage your language, network, and cultural connections.
The first minute I got to travel, I would take it. For example, during my first internship during my last year in college, I went to a place that was so different from my own country. I went to Costa Rica for my final year in college. I could have chosen an easier place, could have been Europe or Asia. I decided to go to Costa Rica, and I spent six months there working with an NGO that was involved in community-based tourism.
We can talk more about that a little bit later. That really helped me to have this borderless lifestyle. I saw that, I had the first taste of that, working as an adult in a foreign country, and I really enjoyed that. At the same time, I also want a stable income. I want to have a stable life. I also want to have a family, a partner that I can go home to. How can you have the best of both worlds? It's not easy.
Where is he?
My partner is in Brazil. He’s 14 hours behind my time zone right now. We communicate even in the morning. The time zones are very tough for us. We have been together for eleven years.
That was the next question. How often do you see him?
Very often, actually. More often than you think.
That's good. I mean, we do.
He's been the angle of my life for many years, and I'm very thankful for that. At the same time, like I said, very considerate and very thoughtful. I want to have this life. I want to be able to work and live in a different culture. I told him, “I really wanted to be able to move and work in different places. Would you be okay with that?” It's a yes. I have a husband, yes, and I also live in different countries every two months.
That's important for a lot of people. As I look at it, you are lucky.
I'm lucky in life. It's not something that everyone gets to have, and I know that, and I appreciate it every day. I’m very thankful.
Dear heart, I'm envious of that because as I look at building my life, I'm still single and interviewing, watching out there. I want a partner that will travel with me, but because I never thought I would have an option of like what you're living. It's really important. People must get that. The two of you have a very special relationship, but at the same time, isn't every relationship that we have a special relationship?
Yes. My relationship is not more special than anyone else's. I do not want to. I did not mean it that way.
What I meant is that it takes two special people to run a relationship that is not. I'll put it this way. I was dating this adorable dancer in West Palm Beach for two weeks. That was all it lasted. I was lucky it lasted two weeks. He was stunning. He was beautiful. Remember taking a walk down Palm Beach on a beautiful evening, and he said, "I have to break up with you.” I'm like, “Why?” I said, “It’s because you're going to be traveling and I want to be in bed with my husband every night.”
I want him to come home. If you're not there, you're not satisfying me. He did not just mean sexually. He meant emotionally. I get that. I want that too. You are able to run your life where you satisfy one another emotionally, and you've got something that's got longevity. Eleven years is a long time. That's amazing. That's wonderful. I want to celebrate you for that. Just you and me. People that are watching this need to see that everything is possible.
Having a partner that does understand that will travel to whatever extent. You travel, you're going out on, I'm going to get to the timeframe of your travels, I guess maybe we'll jump in now. That's an important thing, and I'm staying in relationships, because I'm just like, “It's amazing.” A, congratulations, and B, how long are you staying where you're going? What is your travel cycle typically like?
Two months, because I'm the slowest traveler, and I do not rush it. Every two months. Since we're sharing here and I've already told you my life story, I'll continue to share that. I started traveling this time, saying see you later to my partner, my husband, back in June, May. I do not remember now. God, it's already June. I think in May.
Do you have a sense of no concept of time while you're traveling? I know I do.
You caught me there. Yes. When I travel, my days just blur. Which country am I? I'm not sure when and where I am, because when I said see you later to my partner in Brazil, that was the beginning of May, I believe. I went to California to spend time with my family, my parents in Orange County, in Southern California. I was with them for three weeks. It was my family time. I go home to see my family. I go home to the US, maybe twice a year.
I usually spend at least three weeks to a month with my parents. Two months in the US is minimal. When I travel to Asia for work to meet with clients and partners and be at tank conferences, it's usually two months. I do not do it for any of us because I need to get the most out of my time here. Two months. I'm going to do it again at the end of this year, Q4. September, November, probably September to November. That would be three months.
When you're out for two months, you're not staying in one place. You're running to other different things.
Correct. That's what my work requires.
How are you managing client relationships when you're jumping across time zones?
As I mentioned to you, I usually fix my time zone in Asia, the Southeast Asian time zone. That would be UTC plus 7 or plus 8. That's when I send out. That's actually a new idea. I schedule my emails to go out at that time. Technology helps with that. I do all my work during my day, wherever I am, in the US or in Europe, but then my email goes out at that time. I need to provide stability to my client, and then I know that. They want to expect to hear from me on a daily basis. That's how I do it. Although if I have to work at 2:00 or 3:00, sometimes 3:00 or 4:00 in the morning in the US, so be it. That's the blessing and also the curse of being a digital doormat. You have to get the job done, and that pays the bills and that continues your lifestyle.
I'm glad you mentioned that because that's been my experience as well. It's nothing that I want to do, but it's part of the game, having been in the city for so long as a tourist for anyone watching on a tourist visa. If I've got to do stuff with the people in the States and most of my business has been in the States, I've got to pay myself to US time zones to talk to people. That can just screw up a lifestyle. For me, I take everything on USA Eastern time because I'm originally from the East Coast.
Right now I'm recording this in Miami. I'm at my mom's in Miami right now. I have a studio in her guest bedroom. I can guess I could do this. I've had a bottom hotel for the whole thing. I've always built. I've always pegged everything that way. I've done it particularly on Eastern time because when the US changes time, and for example, like Thailand doesn't change time. It is, you peg it in a different index. You're going to screw up.
We talked about that. I remember you and I talked about this when we first met. How to play tricks with time zones. I remember we talked about that, and I feel you, Ken.
It's funny, we're developing some software, and this should have been done six months ago, but we've got wrapped up in other things that actually allow you to schedule based on where you're traveling. That we know, like, if you're going to be in London next month, you're scheduling right now, your calendar still thinks you're in, like Hue. You're going to schedule a lot of way too much time, but you're only in London. You're going to completely screw it up. We're building out this tool that will allow you to re-index things automatically. We've got quite a few now because we need that. We as nomads need that. You're managing teams and client projects, media properties, and multiple revenue streams. How do you organize your work to allow these layers to go on while you're being fully remote? You're not doing this all yourself.
Automating Minimum Recurring Revenue Streams
No, I'm not doing this all by myself. You have to be smart with your business model here. I know that because I mentioned that between 2020 and 2022, I spent a lot of time learning to do business, and I soaked up courses, workshops, etc. What I learned is that you have to diversify your revenue stream. Number one, you have to keep a minimal revenue going into your bank account. The only way to do it is to automate your revenue. Membership courses are the best way to do that. You actually can expect a certain amount of money you get each month. X amount of members pays X amount of dollars on a monthly basis.
You get that on a monthly basis as your minimum revenue. On top of that, I would do events and consulting projects. These are ad hoc projects. These come to me or us depending on the client's needs. We do not do retainers or anything like that. They only retain us. In Cobra Chaining, it's just the membership of our platform. That's about it. My advice is to have at least a minimum revenue going in each month, and then anything above that is cookie on top or cherry on top, whatever you call that, crème in French or cherry on top in English. There you go.
My crème a long time ago. We'll stay with the crème de froid. I could not resist that, but that's important. Having that stable cash flow is really critical. We need to have that. Otherwise, it gets crazy. Running out of money in strange places, not cool.
I know a lot of times I hear people when they start their journey, there's nothing wrong with that. It's really hard to actually diversify revenue streams at the beginning. You just do consulting projects, and it's hard because they come and go depending on the clients' projects. The turnover rate is very high. You've got to keep some money going into your account on a monthly basis, whether it be courses, ebooks, or membership, whatever that is, whatever you're comfortable with.
You're right.
In terms of, like, in terms of providing your clients to your audience. When you're hitting the answer to the next question, I was going to ask you, which mistakes you see early-stage nomads making that sabotage their professional growth and their personal freedom. Obviously the first one would be screwing up the money.
That's true.
That was my lesson in the beginning. As I mentioned, when I started, actually I started Sainha before Asia's Sustainable Travel. Sainha was a marketing and branding agency. We did retainer projects, right? They come and go, and they're not stable. Especially after COVID, a lot of our clients were just thinking about getting guests through the door, filling their rooms, fixing the light bulbs and whatnot. They did not think about sustainability or spending money on marketing yet. I just had to pivot. What else can I do to make money? I thought about starting a media platform where I can actually get paid by producing content or ad-sponsored content, or membership. We're going to launch a membership on our platform. That's one way to diversify the revenue stream for me.
That's important. I hadn't thought about you doing it that way, but that makes all sorts of sense. You've got to have a good hook to be able to make that work. You're advising companies on both sustainability and profitability. How can smaller entrepreneurs or coaches integrate sustainability in their business models from the start? How much have people recognized the profitability that that can bring? At the end of the day, at least from my perspective, when we're selling something, unless I can show you a profitable element to this, then we're doing it. It's optional. I want you to be able to have a 10x return on what you're paying me. It makes sense that it's just not an emotional sale. We're backing up with logic that this is a damn good idea. How are you managing?
Integrating Authentic Sustainability into Business
We put it in our balance sheet at the beginning. It was up in the association. You mentioned that we contribute five percent of our revenue, not profit, to traceable social and environmental initiatives around Asia. That's just like putting a line item in the sheet, just like you would for your business license, annual business license renewal, or your computer or whatever. That goes into a benefit right away. You do not have to think about that anymore. Sustainability is really about. When we talk about sustainability, it's about people, planet, and profit. People are human systemic abilities. I see that as balancing my lifestyle, what I want to do, with what makes me good money to live on.
I'm talking to the other side. What I'm saying is you're going out to all these companies that are all bottom line based, and some of them, they have a heart in their advertising, but they're really balancing. How are you selling that?
Am I selling that? That's a good question. What I do is I showcase the businesses that actually have done it, the way that is sustainable, is impeccable. What we do at our business is to put a lot of case studies right at the start. It's not really about convincing people. It's really about showcasing that this way of doing business is already there. Think of Patagonia. This business model has been there already. It's not that I'm inventing anything new. I'm just showcasing that this is the way forward. Patagonia is a good case because they are profitable and they do not even want people to buy more stuff.
They want people to come and repair their existing wardrobe already. That helped cultivate customer loyalty. When you cultivate customer loyalty, they come back, and they continue to spend money on you. You've got to think about sustainability as a brand value and brand positioning. That helps you yield long-term prosperity. At the end of the day, when we run a business, we rely on natural resources. You and I are running digital media, a digital-based business, but what powers our computer? What powers our energy? It comes from Mother Nature, right? For example, we have to think about how we can offset the endowment or impact of running a business. I'm right from the start.
You make some really good points. It's critically important, and it's funny that you mentioned Patagonia because I've used Patagonia in conversations about sending off profits and why we want to nonprofit make a cultural difference in the world. TOMS Shoes. Every shoe you buy, shoes are built into their model. Those things make sense. Chobani yogurt in the States is called the Chobani Institute, and they have a whole piece built out to explore new types of foods so that it certainly opens up new markets for them, but it also does allow them to create something that's really magical. It's really important.
Bringing it back to Asia context, I was before when I was in Phong Nha, which is the gateway into the adventure capital of Asia. That's what they call it. It has the largest cave system in the world. I was there to report on a very interesting travel company called Oxalis and the area that was in before tourism and hospitality was a money-generating sector. It was one of the poorest regions in Vietnam. The founder of this company had the foresight to use tourism, impact-led tourism, to lift people out of poverty, because a lot of them back in the day. People were so poor.
Don't rely solely on one-off client gigs. Build recurring membership revenue to secure your baseline income abroad.
What did they do? They cut down trees to make money. That's how they made a living. This founder saw that we have this beautiful natural asset in the backyard. Why do we not bring people to us so that they can spend time here and enjoy nature at the same time? He creates jobs for formerly illegal loggers. They do not do that anymore, right? At the same time, people can get jobs as guides. Some of the company profits go into building schools and providing education to kids in the area. You have to think about it that way in a sense. It was a great case study of the project that I recently witnessed.
What's the name of this town? Obviously I have got to go. I've not heard of it.
Oxalis.
Where is it near?
It's near Phong Nha. You probably haven't heard about it. It's about four hours north of where I am right now. It's a fantastic place. You will love it if you like nature as much as I do.
Now it's on my list. I'll get more details, and we will have to put it into the notes for this because that's important. Learn something new. I haven't been back to Asia in a while. Which leads me to question you. What do most Westerners misunderstand about doing business in Asia?
This is a very good question. I mentioned to you that I was based in Asia. I was based in Shanghai. I worked with my company. I worked for primarily helped international brands enter the China market. It's still true today. For many Asian countries, the first perception that many Westerners have is that all Asian countries are similar, and that's unfortunate. Again, it comes from a good place. Let's put it this way. Let me rephrase that.
A lot of the time we hear things in the media and we do not fact-check them, and we get misinformed, not by any fault of our own at all. We have to do a bit of extra homework to understand the places and destinations that we visit, that we go to, that we do business in, especially in digital math. We have the responsibility to learn about the local community and local culture when we decide to be there for an extended amount of time. That's the first important step to take. Just be mindful and be informed of the places that you visit.
The customs and things. You've got to know which way to hold your hand, and do you not do a thumbs up in some countries? That's insulting?
Yes, exactly.
People forget that. They need to really respect the fact that we are visitors in their country.
I'm from Saigon, but I'm here in Hue. I'm also visiting a different part of the country. I'm not local here, and I need to be mindful because I can mention to you that Asians are very different, but even within one country you have regional variations. Hue is fantastically beautiful, do not get me wrong. I'm not from here, and I'm mindful of the fact that they speak differently here. They have different accents than mine. Sometimes I need to be patient. If you will, it's like going to New York or going to Alabama and not understanding the accent. You have to be patient. It's like, “They do things differently here. You have to be mindful of that.”
There are two things I want to say to that. We're going to have to land the plane soon because we've been going for a while. Where the time is going. Number one, Americans seem to think that if we do not understand their language, whatever the language may be, that those people are stupid. No, it's language. It's got nothing to do with intelligence. Patience, and let's get through that. Oftentimes the person you're talking to is far more intelligent than you are. That's the first thing. The second thing I was dreaming about this other night, and I want to put it actually into an upcoming newsletter, is that, yes, we are guests in other countries.
When you see something that you particularly feel is inappropriate or not equitable, for example, I was in Thailand during the coup. I have my own opinion on what's been going on over there. I have my own opinion about the monarchy and all that stuff. First of all, if I voiced my opinion, I'd probably end up in jail. Secondly, it's their fight. You're coming into the United States right now, and you've got riots. The next four years will probably have protests and so on until change in the United States. If you're coming from another country, stay the hell away from those protests because you'll get thrown out. You are a guest in whatever country you go to, and you need to respect that. Whether you like what they are doing or not is just not the point. It's not your fight.
It's not your country and that's great because having been an expat, for me it's like since 2009 all the craziness that's been happening in the United States I've just been going online and looking at the train wreck, but it has not been my problem because it's the other side of the world I left there and even though I'm still US citizen and being in Thailand, Australia, or wherever I've been traveling. Anything that's happening is my problem because I'm just a visitor. I'm going to be gone. It does make it interesting. For those of us that are causal-related and are heart-based and want to make a difference, sometimes you have got to say, you have got to have discipline there.
Discipline there, no. That does not stop you from contributing. By that I mean we can always co-create progress in a mindful and respectful way. Especially as a digital nomad, when we spend a certain amount of time there, using the resources. Human resources, natural resources, not financial resources, whatever. You have got to be mindful of contributing back to local businesses. I always try to spend a lot of time at local cafes, the last of which is Starbucks. I do not do McDonald's.
Sometimes you want the comfort, and it's hard to go to business, and you do not understand that I get that. I totally get that. No, I would do that too if I was sick and really tired. Do not get me wrong. Just takes a little bit more work, just like spending your money at local businesses. Maybe just go around the corner a little bit and buy a cup of coffee, especially in Vietnam. You can just buy great coffee in Vietnam just on the corner of a street. If you will, yes, Starbucks or whatever hotel or restaurant, a coffee shop, AC, it's great. Support the lady around the corner. You hear what I'm saying?
We had Rachel Cabello the other day as we recorded her session and also my diet, and she made a really good point. You do not need to eat bacon at the hotel. We're talking about diet. Same thing. You can go to a store, Starbucks. If they're franchised, then it is a local Starbucks to that extent. However, you're going to get real local if you do go around the corner to the street. That's where the love really is. In Thailand, my best food has always been street food. It has always been street food.
That's right. If you're a digital nomad or you decide to become one, I think you have to be in a mindset of discovering new things, new people every day. Not every day, in your comfort zone, at your convenience. Sometimes you do not want to do it. I understand that. As I said, there are so many things you can do while you're here.
I was just thinking about a tagline and that, or even a mantra. Be curious.
I think we need to move away from the idea of working from paradise towards the idea of co-creating progress. When you're there, am I making sense at all?
Let me backtrack for a second. What two or three destinations in Asia right now excite you the most for Pride Nomads looking to growth and roots?
From Chiang Mai to Taipei, Asia offers incredible safe havens with vibrant communities for queer digital nomads.
I would recommend Chiang Mai. I really like Chiang Mai. Bangkok has all the fun in Thailand. I was in Chiang Mai last year. I just found out about that.
I was going to tell you, you said that like, "That's old news."
Top Asian Destinations for Queer Digital Nomads
I know it's old news for you, but it's new. It has a thriving digital nomad community. I love nature, so it has close proximity to nature. Food is great. You get to meet with a lot of very interesting artists in Chiang Mai. I met a lot of the artists in Chiang Mai. I did not go to Bangkok. When I was business-oriented in Chiang Mai, I had a great time.
Hold this up for a second. I want to make sure people who do not know where Chiang Mai is we tell them. Chiang Mai is the second largest city in Thailand. It's a flight from Bangkok. It's a night train, like fourteen hours or so from Bangkok. I've done that. Flying is faster. Chiang Mai is Phenomenal. Keep going.
The second destination, I would say Hanoi.
Really? Okay.
Again, I was in Hanoi for the second time, being back after my first visit, which was fourteen years ago. I know I'm from Saigon. I'm supposed to be biased. Hanoi is more artistic, has more charm, and it's busier. It's more crowded. It's definitely all of that. It's insane. It's a much more densely populated city than Saigon. I like it because it's smaller than Saigon. It's also 2 to 4 hours away. You're in the mountains, somewhere on the mountain. You can be really close to the mountain. I love mountains. I love hiking. For me, it's a plus. While I was away, you could be in Mai Chau or elsewhere, a very different pace of life than Hanoi. It has a fantastic food scene, and the city is thriving. The food is so good.
French influence in Hanoi.
It's a blend of Vietnamese, French, and modernity too, if you will. French influence and modernity. If you go further outside of the city, in the suburbs, high prices and whatnot. I really liked it. The third city, I just think about that one a little bit harder. I do not know yet. Maybe Taipei. Taipei is great because it would give you the balance of work-life. People are very friendly in Taipei, extremely friendly and very gay friendly. If your Pride audience, extremely gay friendly. Food is great. Again, great access to nature, hiking. Just around the corner, just a train ride away. Taiwan has a fantastic high-speed rail system. You can get anywhere by train, by the public transportation system. It's a very safe country, extremely safe.
Go ahead.
Taiwan is situated right in the middle of Southeast Asia and North Asia. You are never too far from Bangkok, but you're never too far from Tokyo either. Two, three hours north, you're in Tokyo. Three hours south, you're in Hanoi and then Manila. It's a good central place for that northern part of where you're at. That’s it.
I do not know if you know this or not. When Nymphia Wind won RuPaul's Drag Race, I'm not a Drag Race person. I really never watched the show. When I heard that she won and she's from Taiwan, I was ashamed about losing my game. When she won, she was congratulated by the president of Taiwan and performed at the presidential palace. I read all about it in the newsletter. It's amazing. I haven't gone yet, but it's one of those Ken has got to get there. The challenge is there are so many places, so little time, and especially time there. Just going to countries to check off the city or the town does not make any sense.
You really have to learn and enjoy and get to know the people that are there. We can go forever, but we are way over what we had planned to do. Let's just jump into the lightning round. We're talking lightning round. For those of you watching who have not yet upgraded to VIP, I have got to remember to do this. You absolutely want to upgrade to VIP if you haven't done it yet. Why? It's likely that you have not caught all of the sessions, and we have lots of sessions at this event. VIP gives you the ability to watch them at any time because you get the recordings for life.
That's super important, great value. You've dropped a lot of stuff. You are going to want to go back and just hear Jeremy again and again. Why not? Jeremy on replay, it would be awesome. Moreover, our incredible guests have contributed all sorts of cool stuff to the VIP offer, including things like digital downloads, discounts on trips and events. Even one-on-one consulting has been offered. Jeremy, you're doing some fun stuff for us in the VIP scenario. What did you plan for everybody?
What I have planned for the VIP session is essentially one-on-one consulting that would be appropriate for me to offer. If anyone who is interested in getting started in their business in a sustainable way requires marketing and branding support, I'm happy to provide support on that one. The details will follow. I have not thought about that, to be honest with you. Yes, it could be one-on-one consulting. Let's see if we can make it work.
Let me do this. Let's leave it as a surprise with details right now. You will find that, as you are at the event now, it will be in the VIP arena, and it will be a surprise to everyone because we have not figured that out yet. It's a surprise to me because when we talked about this prior to going live, it was a different conversation altogether. I'm totally surprised. By the way, as a lesson, that thing is not scalable. There will be a deadline for when you can take advantage of this so that Jeremy is not obligated to some course.
I swear, at some point, it's actually correct. That is to be notified. Jeremy does not come cheap, I can tell you. We have one of the bonuses that you're going to have as well. We're developing what I'm calling the AI Freedom Formula. That's all about how you use the power of AI to run your business while you are remote to live sanely. Most people are not using AI in a fashion that is really efficient and effective, and AI does insanely great things. The available tools are phenomenal. I'm excited about putting that together. It will be available after the event is over, so I can focus on getting it done.
I realized that so many folks are not using the power of AI. Let's create something that is manageable and will help us all run our businesses in a much more efficient way so that we are not stuck inside the hotel or the coffee shop, we can actually be out there at the beach or going into a cave or climbing the mountain or in the case of being in Chiang Mai, renting a motorbike and going to the top of Doi Suthep to go see the coffee fields and stuff. It's so beautiful. You should not be working so much. You should be playing, and AI will help you. With that said, are you ready for the lightning round, young man?
I am.
Here we go. Last city you fell in love with? That one in Hue.
I visited this place back in 2011. That was fourteen years ago, and I did not like it. To be honest with you. I did not like it because the weather was bad. I was in a bad mood or whatever that was. Sometimes you have to be in the right mind and with the right partner to enjoy it. This time I came back here by myself, and now I'm on my own schedule, and I actually liked it more. I knew the food was good, but also the history and the charm and the people in general. These people are so kind here. I can say this about everything that I've visited because I choose my city very carefully.
I do not just go to any city because my time is limited. I've fallen in love with Hue, and I would definitely come back here, definitely. When I was biking around on an e-bike around the Citadel, I was like, "This place is so romantic." I was thinking, “I would want to take my husband here.” Every time I visit a place that makes me think of that, then I know that it's an indicator that I fell in love with the city because I want to share it with the person that I love.
That makes perfect sense. Moving on. I can tell you're in love with the city. The one item in your luggage you absolutely refuse to travel without.
Except my passport, it would be my laptop.
The most overrated piece of advice you hear about remote work. Let's debunk a myth. Overrated piece of advice.
That you can do it all. That's not true.
Fair enough. If you were not doing sustainability and media consulting, what random career would you secretly love to try?
Interior design.
Funniest travel moment that could only happen to a digital nomad.
I have been mistaken as a local because I know the city too well. People came up and asked me for directions.
I get that. Let me close it out with this. One comically easy sustainability practice, but 90% of people still do not do it.
Spend your money locally.
That's good. Any parting comments, words of wisdom, or things you want to share?
I say engage, do not extract, and give more than you take.
I love it. Jeremy Tran, I adore you. This has been a slice of heaven. We have gone way longer than I anticipated, but I would never shut this down because the value added has been tremendous. For people who want to get a hold of you, we are going to have your details, of course, here on the page. We would love for you to get in touch with Jeremy. He is, as you can tell, a wealth of information, and he should totally be inspiring you to take your life and living to the next level. My dear friend, thank you so much for being with us.
Thank you for having me, my friend.
Likewise, and we'll see you on the next episode of the World Playground Summit. Stay tuned.
Important Links
About Jeremy Tran
With over a decade of experience, Jeremy has advised 50+ brands on Asia market entry, outbound Chinese travel, social media and sustainability. He co-founded Asia Sustainable Travel – a digital media network offering insights on sustainability, regeneration, and engaging Asia’s travelers – and founded Sainha, an agency helping travel and hospitality brands scale positive impacts while driving returns. Fluent in 5 languages, Jeremy is a speaker at major industry conferences like Further East and The Long Run, and his work is featured in Skift and Travel Tomorrow.
